Saturday, May 18, 2013

Just DO YOUR JOB!

Recently I commented on a post which a talented blogger wrote.  

Lexi's blog is entitled "MOSTLY True Stuff," and I love it! www.mostlytruestuff.com

Lexi was posting on how she sometimes feels jealous of others who have kids who are typical.
http://www.mostlytruestuff.com/2013/05/im-jealous-of-you-2.html

My response was a post entitled "Gratefulness Improves Therapy".
http://superbtherapy.blogspot.com/2013/05/gratefulness-improves-therapy-results.html#comment-form

Lexi commented on my post:

While I appreciate that you are trying to give parents "perspective" it bothers me very much that you would belittle their struggles by comparing them to parents who have it "worse." In my experience, this is not helpful at all. What moms need, especially those in pain, trying to navigate a new system of therapy, medicine, and education, is someone to listen and to empathize with them. Yes, there is always someone that has it worse. But that doesn't mean that what a mother is going through isn't very hard.

Just because your child isn't in the hospital doesn't mean that having a diabetes is hard. Just because my daughter doesn't have diabetes doesn't mean that having a life filled with therapy isn't hard. No one has won the lottery here. We're all just trying to make it through.

As a mother of two children who have had extensive speech therapy, I beg of you to not tell mothers whose children you help how to feel. Your job isn't to give perspective. It's to get our children to communicate. 


And from me:

Hi, Lexi.

I am so sorry if it came across that I was trying to tell parents how to feel.  That is never my intention. 

What I am hoping to accomplish is that they focus on a child's strengths and the blessings in their own situation so that the child can focus on those, as well, instead of lingering in that dark place, where all is focused on the deficits or disability.  (I've been there, so I know how being in that dark place feels...the hopelessness is so overwhelming.)

As I wrote in my blog post "Thank you, dough show! I can talk!" It took me weeks to convince a little boy that he was a "talker," because his school staff had convinced him he was a signer due to his severe apraxia. http://superbtherapy.blogspot.com/2013/03/i-can-talk-thank-you-dough-show.html

Gratefully, his parents were focused on the fact (blessing) that he could say "ma" and "da,"and that made us an unbeatable team. He was talking within 7 weeks, and two years later, he now is a chatterbox with plenty to say, working on his /r/ and consonant blends.

Before I was a speech therapist, I was a special educator for many years.  Special educators are responsible for working on communication, fine motor, gross motor, cognitive and SOCIAL EMOTIONAL skills.  That's where perspective comes into play. 

Emotional state affects one's ability to move forward productively.  I am also a believer in the power of positive thinking and optimism. 

I have seen children whose parents were told by doctors that the child would never walk or talk, and have seen the child then do so.  When parents ask me what I think will happen I say, I don't know, you don't know, the doctor doesn't know...the only one who knows is God, and God ain't talkin'.

I understand there is a period of shock, denial, acceptance, and a whole lot of "Why me?".  I totally get that.  Some days the "Why me?" takes up the whole day, and some days, we're too busy or too distracted with other things or too busy marveling in our child's cuteness and funny antics that it's more of a "Yay, me!"

I know your life is hard. I can also see, by the photograph of your beautiful daughter in that flowing yellow dress, and the comical "selfies" that she took of her dad in a towel, that you are frequently being pulled toward your blessings, like a small piece of metal to a powerful magnet. 

Perhaps finding topics to write about in your blog is one reason your eyes are open to seeing all the small and big positives in your own life.  In my mind, that photo and those selfies represent HUGE positive moments, a window into what is already a reality or a future possibility (a modeling career, the intelligence to maneuver the computer...realize what's going on...react appropriately via facial expression, then get over it...on to the next selfie...hmmm, maybe Daddy will open the door again). 

Those huge positive moments deserve great celebration and lots of lingering in the positive feelings that they generate.  Thankfully, you've shared them with many people, and that positive glow entered the readers' minds, causing a "blessings" kind of tingle.  The fact that you posted the pic and the selfies shows me that you do realize their importance. 

In my opinion, focusing on jealously of others who are more "fortunate" is a REALLY GOOD TOPIC for a blog, and getting others thinking, as you did me, but, again, in my opinion, it does little for getting your children to a better place...unless, of course, it lights a fire under you to give you the strength to keep keepin' on with the difficult situation and circumstances you find yourself in. 

All of this is only my opinion. I own it that I am not a "typical" speech language pathologist.  Because of my age, experience as a mother, experience as a teacher and special educator, along with my training in bilingual education, I stuck out like a sore thumb, as I studied for my degree.  My thinking outside the box got me in lots of "trouble" while I maneuvered my graduate program later in life.  But, now, after over 30 years working with children, and seeing all that I have seen. I am confident that my view of things is something that I need to share, even if, at first, it's not welcomed. The multitude of thanks I get, after the fact, is all the proof I need that I'm doing the right thing. 

It's not easy for me, though, because I'm a sensitive person.  Being told, in other words, that I don't know what I'm talking about is something I deal with all the time.  That's when I recall all the kids who run into my office or welcome me at their front door with huge smiles on...all the kids who cry when it's time for our session to end...all the parents who tell me things are much better at school now, or that relatives are amazed that they can now understand what little Johnnie is saying. 

Yesterday was a REALLY bad day.  I even called my sister to tell her I felt disheartened (I don't think I've ever used that word before).  A supervisor of a major organization chose to take the opinion of two people who (evaluated) saw a child for 60 to 90 minutes over my opinion (having spent numerous hours with this child in a family setting) which ended up having the child denied services.  I was sick to my stomach.  I felt extremely disrespected.   


This supervisor has known me for 8 YEARS! 

DOESN'T SHE KNOW WHO I AM AND WHAT I DO????? (Such a Reese Witherspoon moment) :-)


However, I took hundreds, possibly thousands, of deep breaths and I did what I usually do in this case...I offer inexpensive private therapy myself, because I'm ashamed that my colleagues are ignoring this child.  

You see, this child is not sleeping, is biting, hitting, throwing things at people and talking very little.  He is hurting his older sibling on a regular basis, and according to my more "respected" colleagues, all he needs is some time in a daycare...oh yeah, and his parents need some training, too, in parenting skills, even though they've raised two older siblings who don't bite, hit or throw things.

Yesterday, I went to this little boy's home bearing a piece of equipment...something I just discovered, and had tried with my own son, who had trouble falling asleep.  It's an iLs (Integrated Listening System) pillow.  I took a training for the related head-phone system about a month ago.

The pillow plays ambient music that has been filtered in some way.  It costs somewhere around $280-$290; there is a multiple-pillow discount.  http://www.integratedlistening.com/pillow/  Contact: Chris Dunbar 303-962-2517

I told mom how to use the pillow at bedtime, then we had a therapy session, during which he bit his mom.  :-(

After giving her suggestions as we worked together, mom asked me, "Is there a book that I can read?"
My response: 

"A book? I went to college for 30 years! I've read all the books!  Just do what I tell you to do!" Then we both laughed.

All in all, I left there feeling a little better, because he did try to say my name "oh-eh" a dozen times and did blow on the pretend soup we were cooking, when I told him to.

Last night I received this text:  

You are a godsend! Within 20 minutes of putting his head on the pillow he fell asleep!!!! Fingers crossed he sleeps all night. Thank you soooo much.  Ur truly amazing and I'm so lucky to have u!  Seriously love u.

OMG...thank you, Vivian, for helping me to keep on keepin' on, when I was feeling like throwing in the towel and going to live in a cabin in the woods...for real.

P.S. - This morning I received another text:

The kid slept 12 hours!!!!!
Noelle I heart u! 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lexi, I totally relate to and respect your struggle, and I hope to meet you and your wonderful family one day, in person, if you'd like.  I only wish you the best and am grateful for your blog and your generosity is sharing your life with me. -- Noelle  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My name is Noelle Michaels, and I am a speech and learning specialist. 

Doing my job is a priority in my life.  My training as a special educator has taught me to have a holistic approach and integrate all the child's skills to get the best communication results that I can.  

I develop authentic relationships with my clients and teach through play.  Those who know my work never doubt that I care about the children and their families.  

This week was a struggle, but, after all the heartache and disappointment, I STILL truly love my job.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am available for families in the North Jersey area to do a FREE 30-minute in-home consultation.

I am available via email or phone, and will speak to any parent or professional with questions or concerns for FREE. If you're outside my area, but are interested in me visiting you, let me know.  I may be traveling to your area soon!


CLICK to SUBSCRIBE to This Blog by Email
(You will get an email ONLY when I publish a new post - approx 3 to 5 per month)

For more helpful info from Noelle:

Check www.blogtalkradio.com/superbtherapy for my 15-minute radio shows on my Verbal Apraxia treatments: SPEECH STORIES and DOUGH SHOW (also PICTO-CUES).

Contact me if a parent or professional group wants any training on Verbal Apraxia or other topic, or if you would like to purchase a copy of my Verbal Apraxia book ($8 at a class; $10 by mail - see instructions below).

Check out my youtube channel:
www.youtube.com/superbtherapy
*DORA THE EXPLORER: SNACKademics has almost
10,000 views! 

Follow me on Twitter:
@Noelle_Michaels

LIKE me on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Superb-Therapy-LLC/264601420235424?ref=hl
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To order any of my books:
- Verbal Apraxia
- SNACKademics
- The BEST Way To Teach A Child Colors (Or Anything)

By mail: $10 each; money order (inc. postage/shipping)
Made Out To: Noelle Michaels
Send To: 50 Summit Drive, Denville, NJ 07834
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for all your support!

And...if you need help or advice, please contact me!

Noelle Michaels, MA, CCC-SLP, LDT-C
Bilingual Speech Language Pathologist
Special Educator & Learning Specialist
Email: noellemichaels@hotmail.com
Text: 201-919-4805    

Friday, May 17, 2013

Gratefulness Improves Therapy Results

When parents come to me for a speech evaluation, they fill out an intake form with their information and concerns.

As we do the intake they tell me all the things their child can't do.  

I write them down, and sometimes the list is extensive.  

Often, the moms get all choked up as they describe how difficult their life is.  

We talk about the goals we want to reach as a team. 

We talk about the child's strengths and how those strengths will help us get there.  

We decide on a frequency and, once therapy is authorized, we begin our work together. 

My first goal for every child is to make it so fun that they want to return over and over again.  That's my way of making everyone's lives a little easier.

Some moms come to me and have been hardened by their experiences.


They inspire me to keep on keepin' on.

Some moms are in continual emotional pain.

My first goal for every suffering mom is to help to give her perspective.  

I remind her of other moms out there. 

If her child only has 10 words, I remind her of the children who are 15 years old and have never uttered a sound besides crying in pain or howling in despair, frustration or anger.

If her child is hyperactive, I remind her of the mother who is sitting at the bedside of a child in a hospital who will never walk, and how that mom would give her right arm to have her child run about the room as her own little boy is doing right now.
 

There are mothers who have listed 15 different things their children DO EAT, including BROCCOLI, and then call the child a "picky" eater.  

Then I explain that my own child had an eating delay and continues to have a limited diet, and that I would throw a huge celebratory party (including champagne), if my son finally ate all those things.
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As a mother of a son with various "issues," I was very lucky that his dad always saw the bright side.  As my clinical brain was focused on atypical behaviors, delayed speech and poor coordination, his dad would reply, "but he's such a cool kid!"

His dad helped me to gain perspective, as I took care of all the "therapy."

I had him in the middle of my graduate studies in Speech Language Pathology, and my supervisor once commented that I had my own clinic at home.

I bathed my son 3 times a day (because he verbalized more when he was in the warm water), fed him in the bathtub until he was 3 years old (because he ate more calmly in the warm water), and signed him up for Tae Kwon Do when he was 4 years old, because I was hoping it would help with both his tantrums "YES, SIR!" and coordination (which it did).

I was happy not having an official diagnosis, because it wouldn't tell me anything I didn't already know.

The school system's denial of my son's difficulties forced me to go to the neuro-developmental specialist for a diagnosis, because my requests for someone to help him with his fine motor issues, since he first started Kindergarten, were being denied.  

My years of experience as a special educator and my knowledge as a speech language pathologist were ignored by the school staff.  It seemed that I was being perceived as an overly-concerned parent who was making mountains out of mole hills.

I tried to explain that my son was in as good of a shape as he was because of all the hours of therapy I had given him at home, myself, since he was a toddler.  They didn't seem to care. 

During that time, as I was still learning to focus on the positive (his strengths), I was forced to list the deficits, in order to get him help.

His second grade teacher was the one who saw his need for help in the academic environment, and we finally got an IEP.  But, as if having a child with "issues" isn't hard enough, it didn't happen until we went through the nightmare of him being diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes. 

Let's add to the perspective pile:

If you think going through therapy with your child is difficult, try having to sticking him up to 10 times a day for either a blood test or an injection of a syringe filled with insulin.  

I dare you.  

Have him cringe from your touch, and look at you with fear and mistrust.  

Try that on for size for a year, and then tell me you don't feel luckier than a lottery winner that your child gets to go through his or her days eating whenever and whatever he or she wants without a thought of his or her pancreas and beta cells.

I am SO grateful that my son now has calloused fingertips and an insulin pump, so the sticking is minimal and routine.

I am grateful that he doesn't have an even more serious or terminal disease.  

I am grateful that he is such a cool kid that is now flourishing in his acting, voice, musical theatre and hip-hop dance classes.  

I am grateful that I decided to become a special educator, learning disabilities teacher-consultant and speech language pathologist, so that I could eventually help my own child, and so many others.

I am also grateful that my own experiences help me to kind-of step into the shoes of the moms and dads I meet, so that I can try to see their perspective in some things, and identify with the ongoing pain and disappointment.  

Then I work with them and watch that pain being slowly replaced by relief, as skills improve.

I am Noelle Michaels, a speech and learning specialist. 

I am grateful to be able to help parents (and even children) change their perspectives and reach for higher goals than they ever thought possible.  This is one reason that I truly love my job.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am available for families in the North Jersey area to do a FREE 30-minute in-home consultation

I am available via email or phone, and will speak to any parent or professional with questions or concerns for FREE. If you're outside my area, but are interested in me visiting you, let me know.  I may be traveling to your area soon!

 
CLICK to SUBSCRIBE to This Blog by Email

(You will get an email ONLY when I publish a new post - approx 3 to 5 per month)

For more helpful info from Noelle:

Check www.blogtalkradio.com/superbtherapy for my 15-minute radio shows on my Verbal Apraxia treatments: SPEECH STORIES and DOUGH SHOW (also PICTO-CUES).

Contact me if a parent or professional group wants any training on Verbal Apraxia or other topic, or if you would like to purchase a copy of my Verbal Apraxia book ($8 at a class; $10 by mail - see instructions below).

Check out my youtube channel:
www.youtube.com/superbtherapy
*DORA THE EXPLORER: SNACKademics has almost
10,000 views! 

Follow me on Twitter:
@Noelle_Michaels

LIKE me on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Superb-Therapy-LLC/264601420235424?ref=hl
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To order any of my books:
- Verbal Apraxia
- SNACKademics
- The BEST Way To Teach A Child Colors (Or Anything)

By mail: $10 each; money order (inc. postage/shipping)
Made Out To: Noelle Michaels
Send To: 50 Summit Drive, Denville, NJ 07834
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for all your support!

And...if you need help or advice, please contact me!

Noelle Michaels, MA, CCC-SLP, LDT-C
Bilingual Speech Language Pathologist
Special Educator & Learning Specialist
Email: noellemichaels@hotmail.com
Text: 201-919-4805   


 

  

    

 


Monday, May 13, 2013

The Appeal Of ABA Therapy

Tonight I attended a very informative class on ABA therapy.  The presenter's Power Point was easy to follow, and the main points were explained well.

Only thing I not like many commands adult given language simplified make easier.*

*The above was written in an easy-to-understand ABA form (without all those pesky non-content words) for those of you with processing problems.  

What I meant was:
[The only thing I did not like was that there were so many commands that were adult-given, in language which was over-simplified, to make it "easier."]

When the audience was asked if there were any questions, I raised my hand and instead made a request.  I said:

Please consider not using incomplete utterances to tell a child what to do, like:

- put in
- take out
- sit chair

The presenter's response was that it is simplified because the children might have processing problems.

I believe that more harm is done when we model this simplified language, because the child is not exposed to complete sentences

When he's a little older we will then have to train him to put in all the missing words, so that he will sound like he is using age-appropriate language.

- Put it in.
- Take it out.
- Sit in the chair.  

I suppose this is another instance of me saying, 

"Just teach the end goal right from the beginning."  

Use the right language and ALL the right words...right from the start. 

******************************************************  
I struggled throughout the evening to try to see ABA therapy through the presenter's eyes.  

She seemed totally in love with it, and even claimed that everything was ABA. 

"Hmmm," I thought.  

I began to pull hard...stretching my mind...

trying to understand the point she was trying to make, the idea was like a swirling cloud, beginning to take form...

and then there was a crack of thunder and a blinding bolt of lightening that snapped me out of my mystical meditation... 

this happened when she said that even DIR/Floortime was a type of ABA therapy.

As my mind snapped back into reality, my inner voice shreaked,  

"Huh? What you talkin' 'bout Willis?" 


I thought about the great, late Dr. Stanley Greenspan, who introduced us to Floortime, and wondered what he would have said about that (if he could ever stop laughing)

****************************************************
Now, I understand that people do things in exchange for something that is pleasurable or rewarding to them.  I get that.  

I understand that ABA can get some children who are very difficult to engage to learn some foundational skills, such as, sitting at a table, putting a puzzle together, pointing to things that are named and naming things that are indicated, as well as imitating gross motor movements or using sign language to request or name things.

However, I cannot wrap my head around the idea that Floortime is a type of ABA.

The difference between Floortime and ABA, in my opinion, is that Floortime is more spontaneous, creative and usually more enjoyable for the child.  

Floortime also focuses on higher level language skills within natural, functional experiences. Then there is the most obvious difference of all...children have the opportunity to lead and contribute their ideas to the activity creatively during Floortime, a NATURAL, engaging, back-and-forth interactive activity. 

Of course, I believe in reinforcing a child's language skills.  However, I always remember something I learned in my training.

Dr. Atanasio (Montclair State University) said that if you're going to use a game for speech therapy, that it's better when the speech target is a NATURAL part of the game.

In other words, if you want the child to practice the word "go," then play a game like the card game "Go fish!" 

There will be many opportunities to say the word "go" naturally, as a part of the game.

"Who will go first?" 
"You go."  
"Do you go or do I go?" 
"I go."  
"Now, you go." 
"I will go next."  
"No, I want to go now!" 
"Go fish!"
************************************************************
Let's take another look at the commands mentioned previously:

- Put it in.
- Take it out.
- Sit in the chair. 

Intellectually, I could admit that saying these to a child, and having him comply, might be a good way to measure his understanding.

If he put it in, took it out, and sat on the chair (and I was careful not to give any subtle cues) then I could conclude that he understood the words contained in the commands.

From an adult's point of view this is GOLD, because:

- I can assure myself of certain information (e.g., vocabulary) that the child definitely knows. 

- I feel good because I'm starting to know where the child is "at," academically or skill-wise, so I know where I should pick up my instruction.

- I feel engaged with the child; after all, he's giving me feedback.

- I feel in control, because the child is "following" my commands.  

Note: I put quotes around the word FOLLOWING, because I recently watched a video of a therapist who claimed a little boy was "following directions" to turn around, when all the therapist was doing was saying, "Turn around" and using her hands to spin him around forcibly.

During ABA sometimes HAND-OVER-HAND ASSISTANCE is used until one gets compliance or a "positive" response.  
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Now, excuse me while I take a minute to stand in the child's shoes:

- I feel like I'm being told what to do and ordered around A LOT
- I'm not able to do what I want  to do 
- I'm not able to express myself freely
- I'm not able to think about something else
- I'm not able to change the focus of the activity
- I'm not able to talk about something else
- I will do what I'm told to do, as quickly as I can, to get it over with
- I get tired of doing the same thing over and over again

Back into my own shoes.  I think about this:

If someone were to tell me what to do for 30 minutes or 60 or 90 or 120 minutes, even with play breaks in between, HOW WOULD I FEEL?

**************************************************** 

The appeal of ABA therapy is in the DATA
the numbers; 
the quantities; 
giving adults concrete proof that the child is improving (in black and white)...QUANTITATIVE improvement.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I, myself, believe that a child's real-life functioning (during play and routine interactions) is MORE important.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Think about it.  

Which of the following is the more valuable proof of improvement? 

(Focus on QUALITY...qualitative improvement)

Johnny can produce the word "cookie" 9 times out of 10 when told to "say, 'cookie.' "

or 

Johnny takes his mother's hand and walks her over to the cookie jar, points to it and says, "cookie."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Johnny can produce 20 intelligible words within a 30 minute session.

or

Johnny's grandfather comes in and says, "I can understand so much more of what Johnny's saying!" 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An increase in QUANTITY may be necessary to prove improvement to ourselves, 

but an increase in QUALITY is necessary to prove improvement in the child's mind.

Improvement in the QUALITY of his INTERACTIONS

Improvement in the QUALITY of his RELATIONSHIPS

Improvement in the QUALITY of his LIFE

To me, it's that simple.

I'm Noelle Michaels, speech and learning specialist.  I work with parents to improve the QUALITY of children's lives, and I truly love my job.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I am available for families in the North Jersey area to do a FREE 30-minute in-home consultation

I am available via email or phone, and will speak to any parent or professional with questions or concerns for FREE. If you're outside my area, but are interested in me visiting you, let me know.  I may be traveling to your area soon!

 
CLICK to SUBSCRIBE to This Blog by Email

(You will get an email ONLY when I publish a new post - approx 3 to 5 per month)

For more helpful info from Noelle:

Check www.blogtalkradio.com/superbtherapy for my 15-minute radio shows on my Verbal Apraxia treatments: SPEECH STORIES and DOUGH SHOW (also PICTO-CUES).

Contact me if a parent or professional group wants any training on Verbal Apraxia or other topic, or if you would like to purchase a copy of my Verbal Apraxia book ($8 at a class; $10 by mail - see instructions below).

Check out my youtube channel:
www.youtube.com/superbtherapy
*DORA THE EXPLORER: SNACKademics has almost
10,000 views! 

Follow me on Twitter:
@Noelle_Michaels

LIKE me on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Superb-Therapy-LLC/264601420235424?ref=hl
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To order any of my books:
- Verbal Apraxia
- SNACKademics
- The BEST Way To Teach A Child Colors (Or Anything)

By mail: $10 each; money order (inc. postage/shipping)
Made Out To: Noelle Michaels
Send To: 50 Summit Drive, Denville, NJ 07834
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thank you for all your support!

And...if you need help or advice, please contact me!

Noelle Michaels, MA, CCC-SLP, LDT-C
Bilingual Speech Language Pathologist
Special Educator & Learning Specialist
Email: noellemichaels@hotmail.com
Text: 201-919-4805